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Zayne Chu
Feb 27
How much are the Mongolians and Chinese related by blood, since during ancient times many Chinese princes/ladies married the Mongolian Khans?
The view of many modern Chinese scholars, including Guo Moruo, is that China cannot be defined simply as the "Han Chinese" who settled in the Yellow River basin and lived by farming. That is too narrow and ignores the ethnic diversity of historical China.

The diversity of Chinese history began in the tribal period. At that time there was no nation or civilization, and there was no concept of "ethnicity".

According to legend, the earliest Chinese civilization originated from three tribal alliances, namely the "Huang Di"(黄帝) tribal alliance, "Yan Di"(炎帝) tribal alliance and "Chi You"(蚩尤) tribal alliance.

The "Huang Di" (Yellow Emperor) tribe is a northern nomadic tribe that worships the "Tengri/Eternal Sky"(长生天) and prefers yellow, or gold. They are the ancestors of the Tartars. Their totems are the bear, tiger and wolf. Another name for the "Huang Di" tribe is "You xiong"(有熊), that is, the one who owns the bear. Until the Xia Dynasty, the Xiong(熊,bear) clan, who were the high priests of the "Huang Di" tribe, remained in power and appeared in the historical records as important figures on several occasions. Their descendants founded the powerful state of Chu(楚国) during the Spring and Autumn and Warring States period.

The name "Yan Di" can also be translated as "Flame Emperor". This is because they were the first to use fire. With the technology of using fire, they began to eat cooked food and domesticated livestock to settle down. They were the ancestors of the earliest farming people. They come from the East and revere red, fire and earth. The totem is the "sacred bird". The combination of the idea of "sacred bird" and "fire" is the phoenix.

"Chi You" represents the southern mountain tribes, the ancestors of the Miao, Yao, Yi and other mountain people. They have a name that corresponds to "Tartar", which is "Hlai"(黎). There is a word called "黎民百姓", which means that there are many "Hlai People" and there are more than 100 clans. The term is now used to refer to a wide range of the general population. The Chi You tribal alliance was a tough and powerful fighting force, and good at shipbuilding. Their descendants expanded from Yunnan and Guangxi to the whole Southeast Asia and up to Japan. Black and white are their symbols, with black representing water and white representing silver. Their totem is serpent and buffalo, which later evolved into the Chinese "long"(龙,dragon), i.e. serpent with horns.

Miao girls wear huge silver ornaments in the shape of cow horns on their heads, and their clothes are embroidered with sacred serpents.

As the "Chi You" tribe is very strong and more advanced technology, gradually compressed the "Yan Di" tribe's living space, forcing the "Yan Di" tribe and "Huang Di" tribe alliance. The alliance defeated the "Chi You" tribe in the "Battle of Zhuo Lu" and killed their leader. This interrupted their civilization process.

This "legend" laid the foundation of Chinese civilization. As the victor, the "Huang Di" tribe and the "Yan Di" tribal alliance further merged and eventually formed a nation and civilization. This is the origin of the Chinese people calling themselves "Descendants of the Yan and Huang"（炎黄子孙）.

This explains why the first Chinese dynasty, the Xia Dynasty, which is supported by a large number of historical sources, could not be found in the excavated physical evidence. The word "Xia" means "yellow" in the Tatar language. It is likely that they developed from the tribal alliance of the "Yellow Emperor" and the "Yan Emperor". The alliance was initially dominated by the "Yellow Emperor" tribes, which means that a large part of the nomadic way of life was still preserved. It is understandable that it is difficult to preserve the evidence of artifacts from this period because no long-term settlements like cities were actually established.

In contrast, the "Mongol" word means "eternal fire" and the worship of "Tengri", or "sky". The Genghis Khan family calls itself the "Golden Family". The first dynasty established in China by the Jurchen, the predecessors of the Manchus, was called the "Jin Dynasty", i.e. the "Golden Dynasty"...

The reign of the Xia Dynasty was eventually ended by the rise of a small tribe in the tribal alliance, the "Shang" tribe of the East. This led to a split in the alliance. Some of them were forced to move further north to continue their nomadic life, while others chose to settle down and start building cities. Obviously, a large part of the purpose of building walled cities was to defend them from nomadic counterattacks.

Modern genetic analysis also supports this "northward migration" theory.

We see that the core characteristic component of the settled East Asians was O3, and that they had a more fixed range of activity and were therefore less likely to be mixed. In the course of their migration northward, they had a greater range of activity and continued to integrate with Central Asians and Siberians.

At first, these nomads who moved north were called "Xiongnu", and their counterpart, the farming people, was "Han".

In fact, "Xiongnu" is the name of one of the Tatar tribes. This tribe unified all Tatar tribes in a certain period of history and formed a relatively complete nomadic state. The later "Turkic", "Xianbei" and "Mongol" were all similar Tatar states. They ruled over the same population, but at different times in history we call them by the names of the most powerful tribes of the time. The same is true for the corresponding dynasties of the agrarian civilization: "Qin", "Han" and "Tang" are all code names. The main body of the population did not change. There are no isolated "Han" or "Mongols". There is only a binary coexistence of "agrarian culture" and "nomadic culture".

Another thing that needs to be noted but is often overlooked is that the line between agrarian and nomadic cultures is never as clear as we might think. It is common sense that the two are constantly transforming into each other. It is only when we create the virtual concepts of "nation" and "ethnicity" that this "common sense" becomes somewhat unfamiliar. It is easy to understand that the so-called "nomadic" and "agrarian" are only the production methods that people necessarily choose according to the natural environment they live in. There is no superiority or inferiority between the two. Nomads will naturally be less willing to migrate when they reach a place with stable water and climate, and thus settle down to obtain a stable and safe food output. When farmers face the threat of starvation due to war and climate change, they do not stand still. They would choose to migrate and start a nomadic life. This was a very common phenomenon in ancient times when productivity was not developed. Nomads are also good at fighting because of their environment. They did not have a steady source of water and food. In times of abundant water, that was fine. But when winter came and the pastures began to die, they had to migrate to warmer places to the south. That is, until they saw the walls built by the farming civilization. They have only two choices, either starve to death outside the walls or break them and take the place. At least they needed to grab enough food to survive... You see, there was never any need for "civilization" or "morality". In the face of survival, humans will act on instinct.

Another important change that separates nomadic and agrarian cultures is " the script ". Note that I said " script ", not " language ". Both cultures have a "language", but agrarian civilizations must have a "script". This stems from the complexity of agricultural civilization. It is not easy to obtain a stable source of food, and it involves a lot of human and animal labor. To combat the vagaries of climate change, we need to establish stable irrigation systems and water facilities. This requires a more complex organization of manpower and allocation of funds. To build the projects, we need drawings, to complete the collection of funds, we need taxes. In this way, bureaucratic systems need to be created. The only medium of exchange for information here is the "written word", or "writing", which has a longer shelf life and more accurate information. When "script" was invented, agrarian culture naturally became more complex, resulting in what we know as "civilization". At the same time, "writing" could be preserved and passed down for a long time, which gave agrarian civilizations complete control of the discourse, and they began to call themselves "orthodox" and consider nomads as "barbarians ". So much so that we, as their descendants, have the illusion that "civilization" comes only from agrarian culture and that nomadic culture is "irrelevant".

In fact, rationally speaking, this is just some kind of illusion brought about by " script ". Nomads and farmers have always been there, and the two have always influenced each other and cannot be separated. We are the descendants of both farming and nomadic peoples. "the sky"（天） is our common belief. This is what "China" really is.

Of course, the term "China" here refers to the historical and cultural "China" and not to the modern sense of a nation-state. In terms of nation-states, the independence of Mongolia was a fait accompli. Not only the Mongols, but also the Tatars were active across the Eurasian continent to an incredible extent. There were states established by various Tatar ethnic groups from Asia to Europe. We respect these facts. I am not stupid enough to think that they are "Chinese". However, many Tatars, including Mongols, still live in China as minorities. They are and have always been, without a doubt, part of the "Chinese nation". This is true both in terms of descent and culture.

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Kirigawa Yoshikuni
· Fri
Mongolian themselves are not related to Chinese people but Chinese are related to Mongolian by paternal gene due to Mongolian ruled entire China and Manchu which is mixed Mongolian also ruled entire China, and China was also ruled by various nomadic invaders like Xiongnu, Xianbei, Khitan and Jurchen.

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Zayne Chu
· Fri
According to your logic, Japan is just a country that has been ruled by Koreans. Your royal family is the descendants of the Baekje nobility. Yamatai, the country born in Japan proper, didn't even have a proper history left after Himiko's death...bits of this country's history were recorded by China instead.

Notice in that chart of East Asian paternal genes that O3 and O2b from the peninsula clearly dominate the Japanese paternal genes, while D2, born in the homeland, was clearly fused by the invaders. I don't see anything similar in the paternal genes of northern Han Chinese or southern Han Chinese.

Of course, that's just your logic, narrow and meaningless logic.

For me, I don't care about those at all. Whether nomadic or agrarian, they are all Chinese. What's wrong with Chinese ruling China? Even in terms of nation states, there are still far more Mongols living in China than there are in independent Outer Mongolia. And the Xiongnu and Xianbei have long been integrated into the Han Chinese.

As for the Manchus...my wife and daughter are Manchus. I am a Manchu husband and father...and there is no doubt that our family is Chinese. Does it really matter "who" rules "who"?

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Siau Liu
· March 2
The Sinic Civililzation is truly a amalgamation of all the Northern Mongolic tribes intermingled with the southeastern Asian tribes in South China. The Northern Mongolic tribes had migrated to all over Eurasia and conquered and sominated many other ethenic peopels from Japan, Korea, China, India, Vi…
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Kirigawa Yoshikuni
· Fri
Sinitic speaking people in China was ruled by them and influenced by them. This is why China do not influence them now.

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Pk Leong
· February 28
Very good write up

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Sally Sally
· Wed
haha disrespect so stupid 💩💩🤡🤡👎👎